4.4 Pre Alpha test run

[Béèm]

I would rather stay with SeaMonkey as that was offered in the original that Puppy CE is based on.
Puppy CE to me at least is getting to look like a Stardust wannabe.
The implementation of auto-internet setup is good and works for me out of the box.
But if I want a Stardust look, I would just run Stardust.
If I want Firefox, I can install that.
So how about this for an idea.
Include a standalone web browser that can be removed and offer the option using Puppy Package Manager to install the browser the user chooses.
That should please those that want SeaMonkey, Firefox, Chrome, etc.
If I made some upset with this comment, that happens.

I agree with this. Puppy has a long outstanding continuity in application programs choice.

[Béèm]

why not go with something totally radical and use Dillo as the default.. lots of browser in the tiny core repo, easily installed... I'm using Icecat, with dbus and dbus glib as tcls>>>sfs (*people now take aim at micko...* )

I can agree with this, but then it would be a puplet not a puppy.

[ICPUG]

How many times must we have browser wars?

Different strokes for different folks.

I leave it to Technosaurus to decide.

[ttuuxxx]

How many times must we have browser wars?

Different strokes for different folks.

I leave it to Technosaurus to decide.

to answer your question, usually every CE version we have one and usually Seamonkey wins, Plus we had one when Barry first decided to step down, plus we had 2 poll on it, hmmmm I think that's about it, There was a small one when I first started 2.14X but that was the only time I did what I felt was best and most people supported me with Firefox.
ttuuxxx

[Béèm]

Indeed a browser war, as any war, isn't good.
My opinion is, that 4.4CE, also due to the stardust thing, isn't a puppy anymore, but a puplet.
Don't misunderstand, I like that stardust approach very well.

Now if the community, whatever this is, goes in this directions, so be it.

And it will not deter me to look into this product.

[Béèm]

I have a program which needs SSL.
As the program doesn't work, I suppose there is no SSL support in 4.4.
Would it be possible to add it or else indicate where to find?
(I looked in PPM, but didn't find it there with the search facility)

Thank you coolpup for reminding me of the wikka.
The openssl pet referenced there didn't cure the issue.
So I will to have to look more in depth of this.

Curiously, I discovered that that same program goes well in puppy 4.2.

Don't know why, so I have things to work upon.

[aragon]

I have a program which needs SSL.
As the program doesn't work, I suppose there is no SSL support in 4.4.
Would it be possible to add it or else indicate where to find?
(I looked in PPM, but didn't find it there with the search facility)

Thank you coolpup for reminding me of the wikka.
The openssl pet referenced there didn't cure the issue.
So I will to have to look more in depth of this.

Curiously, I discovered that that same program goes well in puppy 4.2.

Don't know why, so I have things to work upon.

what prog is it? maybe we could help?

aragon

[Béèm]

@aragon,
It is an e-mail client running in wine. (Pegasus mail)
At home it runs without a problem, as I use the ISP's smtp server.
I am at a holiday resort and used already earlier, with success, the gmail smtp server which needs SSL and authentication with the 4.20 one year ago,
Now I use alternatively 4.4CE and Dpup484beta4 and used the same setup as last year.
In none it works.
I asked the question in the dpup thread, but for a long time, gposil hasn't been present (I hope nothing serious has arrived to him)

In wine I have ssl related dll's available.

I just want to bring the puppies I use at the same functional level for ease of operation, as it annoys me a bit to go 'back' to 4.20 only for e-mail.

[aragon]

@aragon,
It is an e-mail client running in wine. (Pegasus mail)

whow pmail, we've used that in our company (some years ago)

At home it runs without a problem, as I use the ISP's smtp server.
I am at a holiday resort and used already earlier, with success, the gmail smtp server which needs SSL and authentication with the 4.20 one year ago,
Now I use alternatively 4.4CE and Dpup484beta4 and used the same setup as last year.
In none it works.
I asked the question in the dpup thread, but for a long time, gposil hasn't been present (I hope nothing serious has arrived to him)

In wine I have ssl related dll's available.

sorry, i could not help with anything wine-related. the only experience i have in this field is picasa, but that brings it's own wine with it...

I just want to bring the puppies I use at the same functional level for ease of operation, as it annoys me a bit to go 'back' to 4.20 only for e-mail.

somehow understandable ...

sorry, no help
aragon

[ttuuxxx]

Indeed a browser war, as any war, isn't good.
My opinion is, that 4.4CE, also due to the stardust thing, isn't a puppy anymore, but a puplet.
Don't misunderstand, I like that stardust approach very well.

Now if the community, whatever this is, goes in this directions, so be it.

And it will not deter me to look into this product.

puplet's are remasters using a built in Puppy remaster script, 2.14X has been built without, I've edited the sfs by hand and rebuilt the distro, I also think 4.4 by techno is built the same way, which would make it a valid release.
ttuuxxx

[Béèm]

Indeed a browser war, as any war, isn't good.
My opinion is, that 4.4CE, also due to the stardust thing, isn't a puppy anymore, but a puplet.
Don't misunderstand, I like that stardust approach very well.

Now if the community, whatever this is, goes in this directions, so be it.

And it will not deter me to look into this product.

puplet's are remasters using a built in Puppy remaster script, 2.14X has been built without, I've edited the sfs by hand and rebuilt the distro, I also think 4.4 by techno is built the same way, which would make it a valid release.
ttuuxxx

Agreed, I don't know anything about remaster, building with woof, T2 or whatever.
I still consider, as my personal opinion, that I should find the same menu structure I am used too in a puppy from the beginning to be considered as a puppy. With eventual additions to enhance.

I realize there are under the cover things as the kernel, gtk etc.., but those should be transparent for an end-user.

Therefor, to give only one example, a release containing FF instead of SeaMonkey, for me, isn't a puppy.
Notwithstanding that such a release can be very valuable.
Therefore, in my opinion, 4.4CE is a derivative of stardust puppy.

It's not really useful to start a theoretical discussion about this. I regret already I made a comment on this.

So I continue to evaluate 4.40CE (and others).

[Béèm]

@aragon,
Anyway thanks for trying to help.
It is a bit a tricky situation. I don't understand yet where the SSL support should come from.
From wine or from a puppy I use.

[technosaurus]

As a "community edition" I wanted to include as many of the excellent community projects as possible for review.
Stardust was included for the excellent Puppy Control Center (It is larger but much nicer than the one I made for 4.2)
SFS linker was included from Choicepup - to give users more flexibility.
Extra drivers were (or will be) included from various other puplets.
I would also like to include better internationalization from shinobar, esmourgit and droope.
ttuuxxx has already posted some excellent work from 2.X
I am open to inclusion of more visible theming from other puplets if they are submitted - I am one of those guys who doesn't bother to change the theme or desktop since I am usually running in pfix=ram mode (in other words better to send the changed config files than to ask for white background and black text)
Macpup previously maintained a "macgic" pet to make vanilla puppy into Macpup - I would also like to make those available to install from the web desktop as well if provided. (even better would be the individual extra packages and a Meta Package that consists of only dependency information, but I know many don't track these things)
The Devx will probably have some extras from devpup if there is something the developer's really want - I'm adding src2pkg, optipng and rdfind (I'll likely manually cut out some static libs that would never get statically linked like gtk etc...)


For those that have difficult hardware and are missing drivers but don't want to have the giant sfs that goes with having everyone else's drivers too, I wrote an experimental zdrv cutter. (Once you have all of your hardware setup - run it and it will make you a new minimal zdrv) No worries about submitting drivers for inclusion, because the extra driver version can typically be (semi-manually) remastered back down to <90Mb assuming the standard is 100mb. The latest version also does xorg drivers.

[technosaurus]

re: wine
I think the library should be /usr/lib/libssl.so.....

could be a wrong version though
from the directory with all of the wine libs in it try
ldd *.so |grep "not found"

[bigpup]

technosaurus,

You go!!! A community edition is just that, the best of all the puppies.
Each version of puppy has some outstanding feature, program, or way of operating. 4.4CE should be the best of all.

I would like to see a puppy made up of all the best programs, no matter where they come from. A base puppy is fine, that is puppy 4.3.1. Puppy 4.4CE should be the best ideas and programs of all.

Example:
Stardust Puppy Control Center
Pwireless2
PupRadio
FIREFOX 3.6
Searchmonkey
Stardust menu control

I say lets have a puppy that we all like. That we do not feel we need to change to get what we want.

I know that the need for a specialty puppy is always there, but it would be nice to see a community edition that makes you really have to think hard about changing or adding too.

[Béèm]

re: wine
I think the library should be /usr/lib/libssl.so.....

could be a wrong version though
from the directory with all of the wine libs in it try
ldd *.so |grep "not found"

Thank you for your interest.
I have that libssl.so.....
Probably after installing the openSSL. 0.9.8
It didn't cure.
Don't bother. There is probably something else needed.
The problem isn't unique to 4.4CE, as I have it also in dpup484beta4.

[Béèm]

technosaurus,

You go!!!
I say lets have a puppy that we all like. That we do not feel we need to change to get what we want.

Well that's the problem. Not everybody has the same needs.
I don't want FF, altho I try it out, but want SeaMonkey, to name one.
But I am very positive about the control center. This really is a huge step forward to user-friendliness.

[Béèm]

As a "community edition" I wanted to include as many of the excellent community projects as possible for review.
Stardust was included for the excellent Puppy Control Center (It is larger but much nicer than the one I made for 4.2)
SFS linker was included from Choicepup - to give users more flexibility.
Extra drivers were (or will be) included from various other puplets.
I would also like to include better internationalization from shinobar, esmourgit and droope.
ttuuxxx has already posted some excellent work from 2.X
I am open to inclusion of more visible theming from other puplets if they are submitted - I am one of those guys who doesn't bother to change the theme or desktop since I am usually running in pfix=ram mode (in other words better to send the changed config files than to ask for white background and black text)
Macpup previously maintained a "macgic" pet to make vanilla puppy into Macpup - I would also like to make those available to install from the web desktop as well if provided. (even better would be the individual extra packages and a Meta Package that consists of only dependency information, but I know many don't track these things)
The Devx will probably have some extras from devpup if there is something the developer's really want - I'm adding src2pkg, optipng and rdfind (I'll likely manually cut out some static libs that would never get statically linked like gtk etc...)


For those that have difficult hardware and are missing drivers but don't want to have the giant sfs that goes with having everyone else's drivers too, I wrote an experimental zdrv cutter. (Once you have all of your hardware setup - run it and it will make you a new minimal zdrv) No worries about submitting drivers for inclusion, because the extra driver version can typically be (semi-manually) remastered back down to <90Mb assuming the standard is 100mb. The latest version also does xorg drivers.

The very big improvement to me is indeed the control center. That will make this edition very much more attractive to newbees.

[technosaurus]

I haven't compiled wine in a while since it is way too big to be included by default, but I will eventually build it again against gnutls (I know wine required it for something) you can try one of my older builds of wine with gnutls for temporary - (btw webkitgtk/midori use it for ssl too)

[Béèm]

The wine I use in 4.20, 4.4CE and dpup484beta4 is 1.1.20 which I converted to a 4 sfs.
I avoid using anything being a pet, not to occupy space of the save file, being in a frugal install. (Lin'NWin)