Is this guy really talking Pennsylvania local accent?
(I am obsessed with English Accents due to me fail to talk proper English.
Like many Scandinavians I sound like we often do. Nordic European accent. )
Embarrassing indeed.
so to my surprise here is a true US American guy who is born in USA
but does not sound like one being native to US.
So has he never talked like an American. Maybe his family kept some
European accent even as Americans? But all his school years would
they have not teased him for failing to sound okay?
Not sure if the video play abroad it is on a local Daily News paper tabloid.
(never mind the Swedish text I link to a text in Enlish below. )
http://www.dn.se/sthlm/efter-28-ar-bera ... -sanningen
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/after- ... -the-truth
His brother in Pennsylvania confirms it really is him.
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/jag-tr ... t-sitt-liv
Here a text in English about him some political activist version? Hope it is
not too political I found it using hasty search so could be a bad site?
http://www.thelocal.se/41486/20120616/
Here an official text from the US military.
http://www.osi.andrews.af.mil/library/f ... hemler.asp
So please no political comments about him as activist. This is purely about
the phenomena of losing ones accent.
Personally I am past 65 years old and have tried to learn American accent
since about 1955 up to now. I've listen to Voice of America and HAM radio
operators and all the TV series from USA.
My curiosity is how does one lose one's born accent? I still have too much
of my "Swedish Country Boy" accent still with me despite me moving to
Stockholm from my place of birth in Northern Sweden. Any person native to
Stockholm can tell that I am from up North and not from down South.
And I do have tried to get me a Standard Swedish Accent but still sound
Up North. Not that a true local of Sundsvall would approve of my mixed
Stockholm/Sundsvall at all they would say I sound like one betraying his
home town and wanting to sound Big City Boy.
So this David Helmer maybe he lived I mean grew up in a tight nit family
retaining a European accent even as US citizens?
He sound a bit German with a bit of Scandinavian in the mix and not much
of US American at all?
Reminder. This is not about US foreign politics okay!
US American local dialects and Pennsylvania accents
US American local dialects and Pennsylvania accents
Last edited by nooby on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 19:13, edited 1 time in total.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
Language is fascinating! You should try to learn Latin sometime -- My mother studied that stuff (and Ancient Greek) at great lengths in high school and college, and according to her, even a little Latin knowledge actually changes how your brain works in some very useful ways (I've never gotten any specifics out of her, sorry).
LINGVA LATINA MAGNVS EST, as its original speakers would tell you if they were still around. (V and U use the same letter shape in that language, because it's hard to make curves with hammer, chisel, and stone!)
BTW, "college" is the American term for the European "university", sort of. While we also have "universities", those are essentially administratively-grouped sets of colleges, where each college focuses on a particular subject. That said, it's still acceptable to use "college" when referring to (a) an institution that calls itself a college, (b) an institution that calls itself a university, or (c) a college within a university... as long as you're doing it casually. (eg "I went to college at Yale [University]", "I spent my college years at Guilford [College]." (Fair note -- Guilford College is where I did my four years, it's in Greensboro NC. Great place.)
More to the point...
Both my parents are from upstate New Jersey, here in the US. I believe that both towns involved (Mom was born in one and Dad in another) are within 15-20 min of NYC. I was born in North Carolina, in the tiny town of Siler City (phone book says the town has about 8000 people, but I'd bet it's more like 7000-7500 since the chicken plant closed last October). Siler City is 45min from Chapel Hill (of basketball fame), 45-60min from Greensboro, and 60min from Raleigh (state capitol). We are also 45min from the Asheboro Zoo, which is the geographic center of the state. (It's to our west.)
Why do I mention all of this? A lot of people in and around the various towns I visit want to know where I'm from, since I sound a bit like I was born in Jersey. It's actually a blend of NY/NJ and NC, particularly since my best friend (he's in Winston-Salem, 90min or so) is very 'country' (Southeast US regional dialect) in the way he talks -- although he doesn't want to admit it.
As for the fella you're talking about, nooby... bit of a German accent, and he lives in Pennsylvania... hmm, wonder if he's got Amish ancestry any. The Amish came from Germany in the 1800s and speak an odd German dialect typically referred to as "Pennsylvania Dutch" (probably the "Dutch" there is a linguistic corruption of "Deutsche" although I can't be certain). Anyhow, Pennsylvania Dutch has more in common with 18th Century German language (and occasionally Swiss German of a similar time period IIRC) than any more modern language anywhere.
Amish folk have some interesting perspectives that I really admire, but that's not where this thread goes so I'll leave that one be for now.
One other thought, nooby, this one also from Mom (although I completely agree)... English is one of the harder languages to learn. Think about the words "though", "enough", and "thought". All three have an "ough" construction, and all three make the speaker pronounce that construction differently. Homonyms (words with the same sound but different meanings and spellings) are rampant. The most common (and most commonly misused IMHO) is "there/they're/their", although this is probably tied with the mess people make from it's/its.
There = a place, eg "look over THERE"
They're = a simple compound word, meaning THEY ARE, eg "THEY'RE about to leave, aren't they?"
Their = a plural possessive. "Don't touch that! It's THEIR money, not yours!"
it's VS its... "its" is possessive, "the tree and ITS leaves". "it's" is a contraction for IT IS, "Hey, don't take that, IT'S mine!"
Plus there are all sorts of fun corruptions that have been created, not all courtesy of the Internet. "teh" instead of "the" probably has its origins in a mid-90s AOL chatroom. But what do you make of this: "Say, dis is de greatest snap I ever struck, de're fine, take a pail to Liz. Dat Brinkerhoffer & Co. knows dere biz." That's off a can of "Yellow Kid Ginger Snaps" that my father has, probably hailing from the 60s or 70s. The reference to Chinese stereotypes of that era should be very obvious -- along with the fact that anyone nowadays trying to pull that degree of "political incorrectness" would be slapped with a lawsuit almost instantly.
Now that I've made a windbag of myself (use your imagination if you don't know the term) I'll shut my yap and give someone else a turn
LINGVA LATINA MAGNVS EST, as its original speakers would tell you if they were still around. (V and U use the same letter shape in that language, because it's hard to make curves with hammer, chisel, and stone!)
BTW, "college" is the American term for the European "university", sort of. While we also have "universities", those are essentially administratively-grouped sets of colleges, where each college focuses on a particular subject. That said, it's still acceptable to use "college" when referring to (a) an institution that calls itself a college, (b) an institution that calls itself a university, or (c) a college within a university... as long as you're doing it casually. (eg "I went to college at Yale [University]", "I spent my college years at Guilford [College]." (Fair note -- Guilford College is where I did my four years, it's in Greensboro NC. Great place.)
More to the point...
Both my parents are from upstate New Jersey, here in the US. I believe that both towns involved (Mom was born in one and Dad in another) are within 15-20 min of NYC. I was born in North Carolina, in the tiny town of Siler City (phone book says the town has about 8000 people, but I'd bet it's more like 7000-7500 since the chicken plant closed last October). Siler City is 45min from Chapel Hill (of basketball fame), 45-60min from Greensboro, and 60min from Raleigh (state capitol). We are also 45min from the Asheboro Zoo, which is the geographic center of the state. (It's to our west.)
Why do I mention all of this? A lot of people in and around the various towns I visit want to know where I'm from, since I sound a bit like I was born in Jersey. It's actually a blend of NY/NJ and NC, particularly since my best friend (he's in Winston-Salem, 90min or so) is very 'country' (Southeast US regional dialect) in the way he talks -- although he doesn't want to admit it.
As for the fella you're talking about, nooby... bit of a German accent, and he lives in Pennsylvania... hmm, wonder if he's got Amish ancestry any. The Amish came from Germany in the 1800s and speak an odd German dialect typically referred to as "Pennsylvania Dutch" (probably the "Dutch" there is a linguistic corruption of "Deutsche" although I can't be certain). Anyhow, Pennsylvania Dutch has more in common with 18th Century German language (and occasionally Swiss German of a similar time period IIRC) than any more modern language anywhere.
Amish folk have some interesting perspectives that I really admire, but that's not where this thread goes so I'll leave that one be for now.
One other thought, nooby, this one also from Mom (although I completely agree)... English is one of the harder languages to learn. Think about the words "though", "enough", and "thought". All three have an "ough" construction, and all three make the speaker pronounce that construction differently. Homonyms (words with the same sound but different meanings and spellings) are rampant. The most common (and most commonly misused IMHO) is "there/they're/their", although this is probably tied with the mess people make from it's/its.
There = a place, eg "look over THERE"
They're = a simple compound word, meaning THEY ARE, eg "THEY'RE about to leave, aren't they?"
Their = a plural possessive. "Don't touch that! It's THEIR money, not yours!"
it's VS its... "its" is possessive, "the tree and ITS leaves". "it's" is a contraction for IT IS, "Hey, don't take that, IT'S mine!"
Plus there are all sorts of fun corruptions that have been created, not all courtesy of the Internet. "teh" instead of "the" probably has its origins in a mid-90s AOL chatroom. But what do you make of this: "Say, dis is de greatest snap I ever struck, de're fine, take a pail to Liz. Dat Brinkerhoffer & Co. knows dere biz." That's off a can of "Yellow Kid Ginger Snaps" that my father has, probably hailing from the 60s or 70s. The reference to Chinese stereotypes of that era should be very obvious -- along with the fact that anyone nowadays trying to pull that degree of "political incorrectness" would be slapped with a lawsuit almost instantly.
Now that I've made a windbag of myself (use your imagination if you don't know the term) I'll shut my yap and give someone else a turn
Re: US American local dialects and Pennsylvania accents
There is a critical window of development, if the person is not exposed certain language sounds during their formative years their brain will never learn to recognize them, or reproduce them , e.g. Japanese having difficulty differentiating English R & L ...nooby wrote:...Personally I am past 65 years old and have tried to learn American accent since about 1955 up to now. I've listen to Voice of America and HAM radio operators and all the TV series from USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_speakers_learning_r_and_lJapanese speakers who learn English as a second language later than childhood often have difficulty in hearing and producing /l/ and /r/ accurately.
[ As a native English speaker some Chinese words sound identical to me ]
Thanks, yes that is why I guessed "tight nit family" we do have such in Sweden too.
They can moved from one region to another and they keep their dialect
intact for many many years so their kids end up with two kind of Swedish
Local Country style and Standard Swedish for school and work and to
neighbors but when they talk to family they go back to their own accents.
My relatives don't like that I have lost our local accent. I sound too
much Big City.
Amish maybe do talk English with an old German accent. So who knows.
His last name sound a bit German to me.
Yes I agree about the age when one get exposed to accents is very
important. Young children do absorb accents much better than a grown up.
But there do exist exceptions maybe those are very musical and highly
motivated individuals with a unique talent. Back in 1960? we had a guy
from Hungary that learned perfect Swedish within some two or three years.
Public Service Radio got so impressed that they made several programs with him.
we now have a 30 year old womanl from Norway that have learned perfect
Swedish accent. Very unusual. I guess it helped her get motivated she did
marry a Swedish guy and live here with him and that the
Swedish Television did hire her to be a weather presenter.
I would love to hear her native Norwegian if she where able to retain it
enough to get approved of by her siblings and best friends back in Norway.
So could you listen to the video or did it not load at all?
What odd accent was that? I'm going to bed now so if I fon't
get back then it is me snoring madly
They can moved from one region to another and they keep their dialect
intact for many many years so their kids end up with two kind of Swedish
Local Country style and Standard Swedish for school and work and to
neighbors but when they talk to family they go back to their own accents.
My relatives don't like that I have lost our local accent. I sound too
much Big City.
Amish maybe do talk English with an old German accent. So who knows.
His last name sound a bit German to me.
Yes I agree about the age when one get exposed to accents is very
important. Young children do absorb accents much better than a grown up.
But there do exist exceptions maybe those are very musical and highly
motivated individuals with a unique talent. Back in 1960? we had a guy
from Hungary that learned perfect Swedish within some two or three years.
Public Service Radio got so impressed that they made several programs with him.
we now have a 30 year old womanl from Norway that have learned perfect
Swedish accent. Very unusual. I guess it helped her get motivated she did
marry a Swedish guy and live here with him and that the
Swedish Television did hire her to be a weather presenter.
I would love to hear her native Norwegian if she where able to retain it
enough to get approved of by her siblings and best friends back in Norway.
So could you listen to the video or did it not load at all?
What odd accent was that? I'm going to bed now so if I fon't
get back then it is me snoring madly
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
-
Bruce B
It used to be Americans had very distinct accents. They still to today to a lesser degree.
I think kids are the best for pronunciation cops. For an example, some guy from New York to California joined our grade school.
He'd pronounce words such as, better idea as betta ideer. How to help? Swarm on him like crows on a hawk every time he makes the mistake, jump on him again.
Same for the Southerners. Dude, are you insane or something? Don't ever ask for ASS when you want ICE.
This is not as harsh as it sounds, because the alien wants to integrate and we want him to integrate. There is a reciprocity of sorts. As if to say: Be like us.
I think kids are the best for pronunciation cops. For an example, some guy from New York to California joined our grade school.
He'd pronounce words such as, better idea as betta ideer. How to help? Swarm on him like crows on a hawk every time he makes the mistake, jump on him again.
Same for the Southerners. Dude, are you insane or something? Don't ever ask for ASS when you want ICE.
This is not as harsh as it sounds, because the alien wants to integrate and we want him to integrate. There is a reciprocity of sorts. As if to say: Be like us.
-
Bruce B
English is my poorest subject, such that I couldn't learn it or get decent grades.starhawk wrote:Language is fascinating! You should try to learn Latin sometime -- My mother studied that stuff (and Ancient Greek) at great lengths in high school and college, and according to her, even a little Latin knowledge actually changes how your brain works in some very useful ways (I've never gotten any specifics out of her, sorry).
Oddly, it was Spanish that helped me to understand English better. Eventually, it occurred to me the 'secret' to learning a language was learning the verb systems.
~
Bruce I envy you knowing Spanish. I did chose the wrong language in School.
We could have two languages and one where obligatory. English.
So either Frenchm German, or Spanish. I should have chosen Spanish.
Almost nobody have any usage for German unless you marry someone
from that country or get a job at a company doing biz with that country.
French you could at least read the French literature and listen to famous
artists singing in French. But Spanish then the whole of South America
is there to explore. Not that I know how much Spanish they get in Brazil
but they know it better than French or German.
And Spanish is almost second language in US now is it not?
Latin Music is rather popular over here in Europe too.
When I where a young kid I found Arabic and Turkish rather interesting.
Their music is so totally alien to someone grown up on Elvis and ChuckBerry.
Could it be that when US Americans get interviewed on TV or NPR
then they try to be Standard US English for to be polite and then
when talking to relatives and childhood friends then they fall back
to local accents that us Europeans that only see CSI and such TV
series never get exposed to?
We could have two languages and one where obligatory. English.
So either Frenchm German, or Spanish. I should have chosen Spanish.
Almost nobody have any usage for German unless you marry someone
from that country or get a job at a company doing biz with that country.
French you could at least read the French literature and listen to famous
artists singing in French. But Spanish then the whole of South America
is there to explore. Not that I know how much Spanish they get in Brazil
but they know it better than French or German.
And Spanish is almost second language in US now is it not?
Latin Music is rather popular over here in Europe too.
When I where a young kid I found Arabic and Turkish rather interesting.
Their music is so totally alien to someone grown up on Elvis and ChuckBerry.
Could it be that when US Americans get interviewed on TV or NPR
then they try to be Standard US English for to be polite and then
when talking to relatives and childhood friends then they fall back
to local accents that us Europeans that only see CSI and such TV
series never get exposed to?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
Oh yes, a classic German-Dakota accentDewbie wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Welk
My Wife's Grandfather was born in North Dakota in a German settlement and spoke only German until he went to school (early 1900's) His accent was identical to that of Lawrence Welk. The interesting detail about those German-speaking settlements: they immigrated to the US from the Ukraine. During the reign of Katherine the Great (German-born queen of Russia), she invited large groups of Germans to settle the Ukraine region with promises of free land and no military service. 100 years later the political scene had changed, and many left for the US. They settled in the north-central US in communities where German is still spoken to this day. Do a web search for "Germans from Russia". Fascinating bit of history.Joe
Yes we had a few Swedes that went to Ukraine too
and some of them came home when the regime changed.
Some of the too old stayed. We had interviews with them
coming home by the Swedish Television which is our version of PSR/NPR
These Swedes knew old Psalms or Hymns that us Standard Swedes
had forgotten to sing in Church. Sweden is Christian by declaration
but the bond is less strong now and officially it is a break or breach
but inofficially Swedish Church still has a given place in tradition
that the "free Churches" does not have like them have in US.
Swedish-Americans are much more Christian than what we are.
We are among the ten most secular nations but below the surface
tradition has a nostalgic grip over many. Even me as an angry atheist.
Embarrassing indeed.
I've now listen to LarryW and sure that could be a good hint that
David Helmer maybe have grown up in such a family and fall back to
their accent when he got interviewed. Him having isolated himself from
talking American English for so many years. Who knows?
I trust that his brother asked him things only them could know.
and some of them came home when the regime changed.
Some of the too old stayed. We had interviews with them
coming home by the Swedish Television which is our version of PSR/NPR
These Swedes knew old Psalms or Hymns that us Standard Swedes
had forgotten to sing in Church. Sweden is Christian by declaration
but the bond is less strong now and officially it is a break or breach
but inofficially Swedish Church still has a given place in tradition
that the "free Churches" does not have like them have in US.
Swedish-Americans are much more Christian than what we are.
We are among the ten most secular nations but below the surface
tradition has a nostalgic grip over many. Even me as an angry atheist.
Embarrassing indeed.
I've now listen to LarryW and sure that could be a good hint that
David Helmer maybe have grown up in such a family and fall back to
their accent when he got interviewed. Him having isolated himself from
talking American English for so many years. Who knows?
I trust that his brother asked him things only them could know.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
-
RetroTechGuy
- Posts: 2947
- Joined: Tue 15 Dec 2009, 17:20
- Location: USA
Re: US American local dialects and Pennsylvania accents
America does have some accents.nooby wrote:Is this guy really talking Pennsylvania local accent?
(I am obsessed with English Accents due to me fail to talk proper English.
Like many Scandinavians I sound like we often do. Nordic European accent. )
Most newscasters are trained to talk "midwestern", as they are generally the understandable to the rest of the population. Some areas have quite heavy regional accents. Some regions (e.g. parts of Wisconsin still primarily speak German).
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Haha here the Scandinavian Americans get together and have fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WrPh5X9cs
Pretty Much 100% Scandinavian - Saga 1
Pretty Much 100% Scandinavian - Saga 2
Pretty Much 100% Scandinavian - Saga 3
But David Helmer did not sound like that did he?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WrPh5X9cs
Pretty Much 100% Scandinavian - Saga 1
Pretty Much 100% Scandinavian - Saga 2
Pretty Much 100% Scandinavian - Saga 3
But David Helmer did not sound like that did he?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
not an ideal solution though
yens guys ain't got no raisins and broughtuppins and need to rhett up the place.
.....My Father is Pennsy-Dutch and this translates to you guys weren't brought up properly and need to clean up the place
Pennsylvania German is still taught in Amish schools, but is a very archaic version of regional German. To further confuse matters, the native speakers of this type of German dialect often use English rules to spell it.
It sounds a bit odd to those who speak German, but is understandable. I remember talking to Amish children in Pennsylvania. I shocked the kids a bit, they are not used to an "English" who can speak German. Odd is relative though, the German I learned is Oberbayerisch, which is Alpine German and probably sounds odd too many as well.
.....My Father is Pennsy-Dutch and this translates to you guys weren't brought up properly and need to clean up the place
Pennsylvania German is still taught in Amish schools, but is a very archaic version of regional German. To further confuse matters, the native speakers of this type of German dialect often use English rules to spell it.
It sounds a bit odd to those who speak German, but is understandable. I remember talking to Amish children in Pennsylvania. I shocked the kids a bit, they are not used to an "English" who can speak German. Odd is relative though, the German I learned is Oberbayerisch, which is Alpine German and probably sounds odd too many as well.
-
RetroTechGuy
- Posts: 2947
- Joined: Tue 15 Dec 2009, 17:20
- Location: USA
Yah, youbetcha!... Uffda!Dewbie wrote:Scandinavians in Minnesota
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The Finnish influence in the UP (Upper Michigan) deserves a mention here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50IgzksUqpQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50IgzksUqpQ
-
Bruce B
I believe that...
All over the UK, the accents vary [sometimes quite dramatically] from place to place.
And the south of England is the same.
i,e, Accents differ all over the south of England.
e.g. A Bristol accent is very different to a London accent.
And the cultivated [posh] accent, as spread by the English Public School system is different yet again.
All over the UK, the accents vary [sometimes quite dramatically] from place to place.
And the south of England is the same.
i,e, Accents differ all over the south of England.
e.g. A Bristol accent is very different to a London accent.
And the cultivated [posh] accent, as spread by the English Public School system is different yet again.