Properly setup BionicPup64 (or another puppy)

[UncleScrooge]

@ UncleScrooge:-

I have to agree with the other Mike's assessment of what needs encrypting and what doesn't.

Puppy's method of operation in 'frugal' mode - loading from a 'read-only' file into a 'virtual' file-system that's only created at boot-time - renders it essentially bulletproof, and un-tamperable. The same goes for AppImages and SFS (Squash File System) packages. They, too, are read-only; ditto for the adrv/ydrv method espoused by nic007.

Personal data (your changes/customizations/specific data, etc) are what, if anything, might need encryption. But trying to explain this to senior management - reared on Windows! - that anything other than 100%, full-disk total encryption is not, in fact, necessary, well.....I don't envy you the uphill task that'll like as not prove to be.

I'll also endorse the recommendation for bigger thumb-drives; the 128GB, SanDisk Cruzer 'Ultra Fit' USB 3.1 nano-sized drives are a good place to start:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ultra- ... b_title_ce

And BTW; from what I've seen of it so far, you're not quite as much of a 'noob' as you portray yourself to be!


Mike.

right on the money mike. an for ne 'noob': age thought me to be humble ifanything else.

About the size of the thumbrive, we'll get to it (even though 128GB sounds a bit of an overkill), but if they cannot understand the principle behind the encryption I would end up with an unmanageable size. or just an unmanageable project. anyway I am already here:

[bigpup]

OK.
Save file is set to use all that space, but save file still has a lot of free space.

For what you are doing.
I am not sure if you want Bionicpup64 to save only when you click on desktop save icon or do a shutdown.
You may want it to just write to save as programs run.

In the boot loader entry that is being used to boot Bionicpup64.
There is a pmedia= command in the kernel line of the entry.

This controls what Pupmode and how the save is used.
Usually based on type of drive, but you can make it think it is on any type drive by changing the pmedia=.

The pmedia= options and (pupmode):
pmedia=cd ->CD/DVD, save set to write active. ( 5 or 12 or 77)
pmedia=atahd ->Internal hard drive, save set to write active. (12)
pmedia=usbflash ->USB flash, save write set to timed write, or by save desktop icon, or at shutdown. (13)
pmedia=usbhd ->USB hard drive, save set to write active. (12)

I do not know what boot loader you are using.
Boot menu entries are in one of these files.
Could be Grub4dos menu.lst, isolinux.cfg, syslinux.cfg, extlinux.conf, etc......
But the change can be made or added to any of these boot configure files.

[vtpup]

Also pmedia=ataflash for internal ssd drives, yields pupmode 13

[UncleScrooge]

Hi all,

kinda superbusy with technical remote support to a customer, a shipyard in the far east.

trying to get big pieces of machinery setup properly across 10,000 km.... without anybody getting hurt or equippment damaged.



so the puppy-thumbdrive project is kinda lagging since the service team ain't travelling. (althoug I already know the boss will start screaming for it as soon as the travel bans and limitations will be lifted).

@ bigpup: where do i find what bootloader I am using?

about the space. sad news is that I need to install several of these items:

https://suite.mydrive.danfoss.com/content/tools

and I have a lot of crap happening with Wine with those, no matter in which mode I configure each single tools (win7, winXP etc), they install ok but a lot of errors and crashes at runtime. Most of the other windows sw works fine though. So I believe I'll need VBM to have them running properly, and that's a loooot of space (VBM + winXp + win7) so I fear 64 GB is gonna be a given.

Last thing: I always make a daily back up copy of the thumbrive (second thumbrive -and I am thinking to use also the "mule" laptop HD, 've got 70 GB free there). But say that on the thumbdrive I stretch sdc3 to the full extent of the unallocated space (see gparted screenshot in previous post), apart for bad luck and thus somehow damage the used part, is BionicPup gonna tolerate such a change in the partition table?

[Mike Walsh]

@ UncleScrooge:-

Hm. Danfoss, huh? Here in the UK, they're probably best known for central heating pumps, controllers, etc.

Um.....right. Just wanted to say, DO be aware than when you start messing around with VMs, you need lots of storage space (you've sussed that one out, I'm glad to see). There's also two other main requirements, of course:-

a) A powerful CPU with virtualization instruction sets, and
b) Plenty of fast RAM - 16GB is OK, 32GB would be even better.

(Don't forget, you're essentially running two OSs with a VM; the 'host', and the 'guest'.....and they both need room to breathe, and to 'stretch their legs', as it were.)

This new Pavilion mini-tower of mine currently has 8GB of DDR4. First machine I've had with VT-x instruction sets (quad-core, runs at nearly 4 GHz, and instructions all the way up to and including SSE 4.2s), but even so, it seems to struggle for working space when running a VM. Puppy runs fine ('cos it's so small), but anything else, ya need lots & lots of space.....and with the average Win10 install needing 20-25 GB of space, plus its expectancy of a hard drive to constantly write to/read from, you can never have too much storage/ working room. As I'm sure you're aware!

Just my two-penn'orth, FWIW.


Mike.

[bigpup]

@ bigpup: where do i find what bootloader I am using?

If you look on the first partition on the USB drive.
The boot loader files are usually placed there.
In a directory named boot or UEFI. May just be on the partition.

Look for those config files I listed. Should be one of them.
I am going to guess, it will most likely be grub.cfg.

[bigpup]

Wine is good for running Windows programs in Linux.
However, you are seeing that it is not perfect.

Here you can find info about specific programs and possible ways to get them working.
https://www.winehq.org/
It has a huge data base of information.
Do a search for the specific program.

This is the best place to get versions of Wine for Puppy:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88711
A newer version of Wine, may now give better support, for what you are trying to run.

Important, you run wine config, to get the new install of Wine, setup.
First time run, it usually downloads and installs some other needed stuff for Wine.
If no menu entry to run wine config. (winecfg in terminal)

If Window program is 32bit.
You probably need this added to Bionicpup64 8.0

To run 32bit applications you'll need to install the 32bit compatibility sfs available in quickpet.

[vtpup]

But say that on the thumbdrive I stretch sdc3 to the full extent of the unallocated space (see gparted screenshot in previous post), apart for bad luck and thus somehow damage the used part, is BionicPup gonna tolerate such a change in the partition table?

Shouldn't be a problem. Just use gparted in the <System> menu to expand the partition. That's not the same thing as trying to make a doubly huge pupsave file, however (I'm assuming you're not asking that.)

I'm kind of wondering if anyone has done an encrypted puppy save folder, instead of an encrypted savefile. If there is such a thing, it would be a solution for at least that part of the puzzle.

I would be sure to follow Bigpup's advice to install the 32 bit compatibility sfs for Bionicpup64 with Wine, if you haven't already. (<Quickpet>, "Useful" tab).

Then I wouldn't give up on getting your Danfoss apps to run on Wine just yet. I'd check by starting apps in Wine from a terminal to see what the error messages are -- usually complaining about missing dependencies, which you may be able to download.

Start the terminal in the directory where the app resides -- Generally in a subfolder of C:/Program Files/ --- rt click in the app's folder, and select "Window" and "Terminal Here"). Sometimes reluctant WIn/Wine apps will work without problem if you do that. If that's the case, you can then set them up to run that way.

I would work on one Danfoss app at a time, and open a new thread for that one only, asking specific questions as you go in trying to make it run.

I don't think the virtual windows solution will be a practical one by comparison. It will be a monster, and require careful user oddness to open run and close properly. I'd focus on getting a few necessary apps running in Wine. Up to you though.....

ps. and then there's the old Linux advice, is it possible to replace some of those Windows apps with a native Linux app that does something similar?

[UncleScrooge]

But say that on the thumbdrive I stretch sdc3 to the full extent of the unallocated space (see gparted screenshot in previous post), apart for bad luck and thus somehow damage the used part, is BionicPup gonna tolerate such a change in the partition table?

Shouldn't be a problem. Just use gparted in the <System> menu to expand the partition. That's not the same thing as trying to make a doubly huge pupsave file, however (I'm assuming you're not asking that.)

I'm kind of wondering if anyone has done an encrypted puppy save folder, instead of an encrypted savefile. If there is such a thing, it would be a solution for at least that part of the puzzle.

I would be sure to follow Bigpup's advice to install the 32 bit compatibility sfs for Bionicpup64 with Wine, if you haven't already. (<Quickpet>, "Useful" tab).

Then I wouldn't give up on getting your Danfoss apps to run on Wine just yet. I'd check by starting apps in Wine from a terminal to see what the error messages are -- usually complaining about missing dependencies, which you may be able to download.

Start the terminal in the directory where the app resides -- Generally in a subfolder of C:/Program Files/ --- rt click in the app's folder, and select "Window" and "Terminal Here"). Sometimes reluctant WIn/Wine apps will work without problem if you do that. If that's the case, you can then set them up to run that way.

I would work on one Danfoss app at a time, and open a new thread for that one only, asking specific questions as you go in trying to make it run.

I don't think the virtual windows solution will be a practical one by comparison. It will be a monster, and require careful user oddness to open run and close properly. I'd focus on getting a few necessary apps running in Wine. Up to you though.....

ps. and then there's the old Linux advice, is it possible to replace some of those Windows apps with a native Linux app that does something similar?

right on the money vtpup. ant thanx to all others for the suggestions and hints.

I already had the 32 bit sfs for wine compatibility and as for Danfoss, since we are a good customer of theirs they are looking into the possibility of compiling the utilities we need under linux, so we'll come back to that later.
We dropped the idea of having a VM installed in the BionicPup thumbdrive for all the reasons you folks quoted and some.

I have rebuilt all my original scripts (LAN and CAN BUS testing and communication tools) into user friendly GUIs. Thanx to all those who in other posts/subforums gave me hints and suggestion to find the way through gtkdialog, yad and stuff .

The presentation to the bosses that me and another colleague, now giving me a hand on the project, gave last Thursday went super well, guys from other departments suddenly woke up from their dozing offs and gotten excited.

But of course, as it were, another problem popped up

the company will update all our laptops, within the end of the year, to Windows 10 with no legacy MBR.
Only UEFI.

I already went thorugh the ordeal of setting up an Ubuntu full intsall with UEFI booting mode months ago, at the beginning of this odissey. It worked eventually, although, as I said in the original post, it was unusable (Lubuntu and Mint: same thing).

So we had to stop today the final developments of the SW utilities to concentrate on the UEFI booting.

I am reading through this: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 2&start=60 which has an encouraging title...

any other particular hint on the subject?

PS: thanx to all for the support, and the great and constructive environment

[bigpup]

Computers with UEFI.
Booting from a USB install of Puppy Linux, is not that hard, if you can disable secure boot or enable legacy boot in the UEFI bios setup.

That is actually how UEFI can boot something other than Windows on a USB flash drive, when the other OS has no authenticated security key.

If you must have secure boot enabled.
Then the USB installed OS has to be able to supply the needed authentication security key.

I have had good luck getting Bionicpup64 8.0 to boot from a USB flash drive, with secure boot enabled.
I used Frugalpup Installer to do the Bionicpup install on the USB flash drive.

Frugalpup Installer
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=114340
It can install a UEFI boot loader that works with secure boot enabled.
Make sure to use the latest version.
Version 20 or newer.

From Frugalpup Installer Help:

uefi - Secure Boot:

The easiest way to allow Puppy Linux to boot on a uefi computer is to disable Secure Boot in BIOS.

If Secure Boot is enabled, every boot has to be authenticated with a key.
The key for Puppies installed with FrugalPup is not installed in the BIOS by the computer manufacturer.
But it is installed by FrugalPup as the file puppy.cer in the root directory of the fat32 install directory.
It is necessary to use the Enroll key from disk option of MOK manager, on this file, once.
A screen providing an option to run MOK manager will be shown before the Grub2 menu, whenever it is needed.

Once the Puppy MOK has been "enrolled", subsequent boots of any Puppy installed by FrugalPup should proceed directly to the Grub2 menu.

[UncleScrooge]

Computers with UEFI.
Booting from a USB install of Puppy Linux, is not that hard, if you can disable secure boot or enable legacy boot in the UEFI bios setup.

That is actually how UEFI can boot something other than Windows on a USB flash drive, when the other OS has no authenticated security key.

If you must have secure boot enabled.
Then the USB installed OS has to be able to supply the needed authentication security key.

I have had good luck getting Bionicpup64 8.0 to boot from a USB flash drive, with secure boot enabled.
I used Frugalpup Installer to do the Bionicpup install on the USB flash drive.

Frugalpup Installer
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=114340
It can install a UEFI boot loader that works with secure boot enabled.
Make sure to use the latest version.
Version 20 or newer.

From Frugalpup Installer Help:

uefi - Secure Boot:

The easiest way to allow Puppy Linux to boot on a uefi computer is to disable Secure Boot in BIOS.

If Secure Boot is enabled, every boot has to be authenticated with a key.
The key for Puppies installed with FrugalPup is not installed in the BIOS by the computer manufacturer.
But it is installed by FrugalPup as the file puppy.cer in the root directory of the fat32 install directory.
It is necessary to use the Enroll key from disk option of MOK manager, on this file, once.
A screen providing an option to run MOK manager will be shown before the Grub2 menu, whenever it is needed.

Once the Puppy MOK has been "enrolled", subsequent boots of any Puppy installed by FrugalPup should proceed directly to the Grub2 menu.

great stuff bigpup. looks like it's right what I needed.

the new laptops our company will distribute to us will have BIOS with no legacy MBR only UEFI and, needless to say "secure boot" enabled.

bosses and IT advisors (the latter accountant mind oriented) are very reluctant to authorize the disabling of the secure boot, so the method you pointed out might actually be settling the matter.

we'll look it into it and test right away

thnx again

[vtpup]

UncleScrooge, seems like you're facing the same task I tried: to convince our local public school system to use linux when they were considering dropping expensive apples, and buying a truckload of chromebooks for students.
I was on a tech committee trying to convince them to, okay, buy the chromebooks, but install linux on them and give kids true personal computers with installed open source applications, instead of Google corporate cloud terminals.
I tried to get an example cromebook setup tried, but the IT head wanted less work (since he was leaving in a month anyway) and sunk the project.
Hope you're successful in getting this accomplished for your company.

[ndujoe1]

I agree use ext4
on Teamviewer mess this is how I do it.
I use Google Chrome. Setup an account on teamviewer online
https://login.teamviewer.com/

then I add the Teamviewer App from Google play.

When you click connect on your account page, select the Chrome App from the online window that appears.

[vtpup]

It's okay for such a security-conscious company that Google is in on whatever they do?

[UncleScrooge]

I agree use ext4
on Teamviewer mess this is how I do it.
I use Google Chrome. Setup an account on teamviewer online
https://login.teamviewer.com/

then I add the Teamviewer App from Google play.

When you click connect on your account page, select the Chrome App from the online window that appears.

already tried that and it seems to work only one way, that is once you have the chrome teamviewer app installed you can remote your desktop, but you cannot control the desktop of others
which on second thought could actually be ok.

On another thread i reported some tests we did with smokey's "Back seat driver"; so far so good, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 27#1056427
we still have to test from "real" remote when the travels ban will be fully lifted

[UncleScrooge]

It's okay for such a security-conscious company that Google is in on whatever they do?

don't get me started.............................................................

the king is naked, they know it and pretend is not ...

[vtpup]

Apologies, it's a lost cause in general, there was no point in my bringing it up. I await with stoicism rather than anticipation, my increasingly brief stay in the future.

[ras]

As it comes, all our new generations of controllers are running on linux (no sh**t... again...), so we found ourselves in a bit of a quandary.

Do you have specific Linux apps you need to run, and do they run well in the chosen Puppy?

[bigpup]

About your f2stickpup install boot problem.

First make sure it is f2sticpup v20 you are using.

Next you may need to install f2fs-tools to get support for Gparted to be able to do a good f2fs format.

I used f2stickpup v20 and did an install to a USB stick.

The grub.cfg it made looks like this:

Code: Select all

#
set default=0
set timeout=5

set menu_color_normal='yellow/blue'
set menu_color_highlight='black/cyan'

if [ $grub_platform = 'efi' ]; then
    loadfont /boot/grub/fonts/DejaVuSansMono18.pf2
    set gfxmode=auto
    terminal_output gfxterm
fi

menuentry "Puppy bionicpup32 8.0" {
    insmod f2fs
    search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set  3022800b-6986-47f2-84fa-e9880eda3bc4
    echo "Loading vmlinuz"
    linux /bionicpup32/vmlinuz net.ifnames=0 pmedia=usbhd pdrv=3022800b-6986-47f2-84fa-e9880eda3bc4 psubdir=/bionicpup32 pfix=fsck,fsckp TZ=EST5EDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0
    echo "Loading initrd.gz"
    initrd /bionicpup32/initrd.gz
}
if [ $grub_platform = 'efi' ]; then
    menuentry 'System BIOS setup' {
        fwsetup
    }
fi
menuentry "Shutdown computer" {
    halt
}
menuentry "Reboot computer" {
    reboot
}

I think you can see the difference, my grub.cfg has, from yours.

If you did use f2stickpup v20
Try doing it again, with a fresh new, clean install.

[UncleScrooge]

first of all:

bigpup is answering to a post of mine that was intended to stick here but I inadvertendly put it on a fresh new thread (thnx to the mods for their patience) here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=118797

btw: thnx aslo to Terry H for his reply in there.

@ bigpup:
I downloaded and installed frugalpup_20.sfs from here which is a package with 4 different utilities:

-DiskPup
-f2StickPup
-FrugalPup
-StickPup

I used f2StickPup (which actually shows V11 in its window). and when asked for the image I chose "this". The destination USB was preformatted FAT32, and after F2StickPup finishes (in a flash actually) I end up with the stuff I posted here.
I tried three times with three different USB thumbdrives, same result.

EDIT: also tried with the other 2 utilities DiskPup and FrugalPup with the same result. the grub.cfg file contains menu entries only to shutdown, reboot or access the BIOS settings.

I also used the main "frugalpup" gui which is actually, again, showing V11. but I am pretty positive i downloaded frugalpup_20.sfs from the link above