War President Obombya to collect Peace Prize soon

[PaulBx1]

It's a shame my other thread was locked because of a silly off-topic dispute. Anyway this is a general continuation of the theme.

A while back there was a big thread where some people, perhaps unaware of the reality of the world, made hopeful postings about the new US president. I wonder if they still have hopes?

Rachel Maddow put together an interesting video showing Obombya is even more warlike than Bush:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/a ... 44175.html
Note the increasing rate of escalation in Afghanistan, in her graphic.

There is hopeful news though. According to a new poll, half of Americans have turned "isolationist" (a pejorative whose actual meaning is "let's not bomb the crap out of people in other countries").
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34255911/ns/world_news/
The bad news is that our ruling class doesn't care what we think, just like the ruling class in all other countries.

[Slapdash]

Face it - you (as in the nation, not you personally) are in the mess. The only way of getting out of it is coming through, not pulling out. You pull out and the enemy will follow you. And there IS an enemy.
While I'm not saying that (the) war is good I have to recognize that since you are already in it - regardless of how you actually got there - it's better to win than to capitulate.

[diaeresis]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't this war started quite some time ago by a man called BUSH after some Saudi Arabians decided to hijack a couple of airplanes over New York.

Obama (note the spelling, odd that a foreigner can spell your presidents name but you can't) is trying to finish what someone else started. And if you had taken any notice of recent news you would have known that he has already made some comments about the probable start of American troop withdrawals from Afghanistan.

And as Slapdash has already pointed out, if the Taliban are not squashed in Afghanistan and Pakistan, AlQuaeda will always have a secure geographic area from which to operate. And given their track record of successfull attacks on the US and it's interests abroad that cannot be good news for America.

Or perhaps you like the idea of American troops and citizens being targeted worldwide and in the own country by people prepared to die if the death will kill Americans.

Hardly a patriotic viewpoint I would have thought.

But then what would I know, I'm not an American so I can't really comment on what makes an American patriot.

[Pizzasgood]

Obama (note the spelling, odd that a foreigner can spell your presidents name but you can't)

Take another look at Paul's intentional misspelling. Or do they not do puns where you live?

[tlchost]

It's a shame my other thread was locked because of a silly off-topic dispute.

Of course one might ponder why political discussions, even labeled O-T are in a technical forum?

[sikpuppy]

It's a shame my other thread was locked because of a silly off-topic dispute.

Of course one might ponder why political discussions, even labeled O-T are in a technical forum?

I'd explain, but it's technical.

[bignono1]

I hope you yankeeeeeeez get more and more Obombyas.
It is your system that got you to this , so blame but yourselfs.

[tlchost]

I'd explain, but it's technical.

Oh....and then the explanation would be O-T, since the original post wasn't technical. It's clear now, as most Jesuit logic is upon closer examination.

[sikpuppy]

I'd explain, but it's technical.

Oh....and then the explanation would be O-T, since the original post wasn't technical. It's clear now, as most Jesuit logic is upon closer examination.

Erm. Jesuit logic? As in Christian logic? *boggles*

[tlchost]

Erm. Jesuit logic?

A term commonly used to describe twisted logic that attempts to use argument to "prove" things things that may not be true. One schooled in Jesuit Logic could make a case that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

Many folks with an agenda use that type of logic to prove their point...most often to themselves, and when preaching to the choir.

As in Christian logic? *boggles*

I don't know whether some Christians would consider Jesuits as Christians....and I don't understand your use of boggles.

[sikpuppy]

Erm. Jesuit logic?

A term commonly used to describe twisted logic that attempts to use argument to "prove" things things that may not be true. One schooled in Jesuit Logic could make a case that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

Many folks with an agenda use that type of logic to prove their point...most often to themselves, and when preaching to the choir.

As in Christian logic? *boggles*

I don't know whether some Christians would consider Jesuits as Christians....and I don't understand your use of boggles.

My mind boggled at the implied ignorance of that statement (Jesuit logic). It's like the predominance of the misuse of the word "gay" to mean a bad thing, when in actual fact it can be deeply hurtful if used in that fashion.

Anyway, I guess the greater fool is the one that argues with an idiot, so I might just leave you in pieces.

[Notorik]

Boundary, n. In political geography, an imaginary line between two nations, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of another.
— Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

[tlchost]

so I might just leave you in pieces.

Praise be....I won't have to purchase a drivel filter.

[Pizzasgood]

One schooled in Jesuit Logic could make a case that the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

Well, if you look at a globe you can see that any location that exists to the east may also be reached from the west. For example, take Japan, a nation of the East and the land of the rising sun. If I wanted to go there, however, I would go west. Besides - sunrise and sunset are the same thing, simply observed from opposite sides.

(Sorry, but I can't resist something like that.)

[tlchost]

Besides - sunrise and sunset are the same thing, simply observed from opposite sides.

Or is it that one is viewed heads side up, while the other is seen from heads side down?

[Pizzasgood]

It depends on which direction you define to be up. If you define it as the tangent to the earth's surface in the direction of rotation, then people observing sunset would be uprightish, while the people observing sunrise would be rather upsidedownish. OTOH, if you define up to be the direction pointing from the center of Earth to the center of the sun, then both parties would be equally sideways, except with the opposite angles.

I define up to be the opposite direction from the one in which I am pulled by gravity at any given moment. Therefor I always view both sunrise and sunset upright.

Of course, for all of the above I am assuming the people involved are standing such that the vector from their feet to their head points outward from the center of the Earth. In reality, many of them would actually be in a perpendicular position during sunrise to the position they are in during sunset. Myself included, because I prefer to minimize the time between waking up and attending my first class, thus maximizing the time between my final class and going to sleep. In six months or so I will ideally have some form of employment, so I'll probably rotate my sleep schedule back a couple hours to match the demands of society and get to be up and about during sunrise again.

[tlchost]

It depends on which direction you define to be up.

Or down....

[Pizzasgood]

Well, typically down = -up, so defining one implies defining the other. If you want to go so far as to have down be, say, perpendicular to up, then there is little point trying to communicate anymore.

[tlchost]

Well, typically down = -up, so defining one implies defining the other. If you want to go so far as to have down be, say, perpendicular to up, then there is little point trying to communicate anymore.

It's difficult for me to grasp the concept of down being perpendicular to up.

I have purposely confused students with directional words to stimulate their thinking skills. It some times helps them determine which end is up.

[PaulBx1]

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't this war started quite some time ago by a man called BUSH after some Saudi Arabians decided to hijack a couple of airplanes over New York.

Yes, you are correct. My scorn is bipartisan. I think everyone in D.C. is a war criminal. This answer may make no sense to people who never question why those Saudis would do such a thing, and to us rather than, say, the Danes.

Obama (note the spelling, odd that a foreigner can spell your presidents name but you can't) is trying to finish what someone else started.

Ah, so that's why he's getting a Peace Prize. I suppose it must be some small consolation to those Iraqis and Afghans who are being "finished".

if the Taliban are not squashed in Afghanistan and Pakistan, AlQuaeda will always have a secure geographic area from which to operate.

So let's nuke the whole place and be done with it. After we get the oil out, of course. As Randy Newman put it in his song "Political Science", "they all hate us anyhow, so let's drop the big one now."

Or perhaps you like the idea of American troops and citizens being targeted worldwide and in the own country by people prepared to die if the death will kill Americans.

A really good way to stop being "targeted", is to stop poking people in the eye, seems to me. If there is one thing the good old USA is great at manufacturing, it is terrorists.

Hardly a patriotic viewpoint I would have thought.

But then what would I know, I'm not an American so I can't really comment on what makes an American patriot.

Some quotes about patriotism for you:

"t is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Reichsmarschall Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government."
--Thomas Paine 'The Rights of Man' c.1792

"Patriotism is the love of a land and its people, nationalism is the love of a government."
-- Dr. Clyde Wilson

"You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it."
-- Malcolm X

Malcolm X, that Muslim! What would he know? Right?