Anyone else having WinXP update problems?

Message

Dewbie · #1 Post by **Dewbie** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 05:24

This all started with last month’s WinXP updates.
They wouldn’t install correctly until over a week after Patch Tuesday.
As for this month, have a look over here.

Apparently, I’m lucky.
While searching for updates, CPU ramped to 100% and froze the machine.
So I disabled them.

jpeps · #2 Post by **jpeps** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 06:14

Just got one recently; no problems other than it shut down the computer.

Monsie · #3 Post by **Monsie** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 06:43

Last month, Windows Update kept bringing up a few of the updates that I had already installed...

Finally, I just hid those updates and left it alone.

This month, my Windows updates went smoothly...

I have found that it is really important to keep back-ups --especially since experience has taught me that System Restore does not always work when "stuff happens" and things go awry...

Monsie

Dewbie · #4 Post by **Dewbie** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 07:17

Monsie wrote:

Last month, Windows Update kept bringing up a few of the updates that I had already installed... Finally, I just hid those updates and left it alone.

Same thing here.
Mine was set to notify but not auto-install.
I clicked on (yellow) shield in tray; supposedly it installed.
Was notified again later, so I reinstalled through M$ updates in Start menu.

mikeb · #5 Post by **mikeb** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 09:28

Do bear in mind if XP is coming to the end of its support cycle then recent updates may not do you any favours....this is a company with no morals remember.

Actually my XP installs have windows update removed either just after install or pre install. SP3 is in there but thats a different matter.

If there was a specific fix needed then you can always download it anyway...though never came across one yet.

mike

cthisbear · #6 Post by **cthisbear** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 09:58

" Actually my XP installs have windows update removed either just
after install or pre install. "

::::::::

Only way to fly.

I can't say enough...Windows updates = BS....

Period.

""""""""""""

And if Windows as per usual stuffs up....

use the Falcon boot cd and ERD to remove the update.

Too hard.

Chris.

mikeb · #7 Post by **mikeb** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 10:13

I once checked out years ago the content of current possible updates and at the time 99% were for internet explorer and related software. Since I also remove those, the updates were a. superfluous and b. highlighted why removing that stuff was so important to a happy system. ps most viruses come through and/or target the same software.

I still have windows 2000 running happily from an install in 2005 this way. The last time I had to do a reinstall to fix windows was with 98 around 2001....I was not impressed and was determined to find out what was wrong with this stuff I had paid quite a bit of money for.

Oh by the way once the XP support cycle ends do not be surprised if updates to your favourite software no longer installs and/or runs ... they add dummy functions to each windows released kernel and then call for them in update developement kits and installer makers to produce this obsolecense.
This trick has been used against NT4 and 2000 so there is no reasoin to believe that XP will not get the same treatment.

BS...yes huge dollops of the stuff floats around...BS makes money...download yer bottles of Dr Good

mike

jpeps · #8 Post by **jpeps** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 14:28

mikeb wrote:
Do bear in mind if XP is coming to the end of its support cycle then recent updates may not do you any favours....this is a company with no morals rememb

BS...yes huge dollops of the stuff floats around...BS makes money...download yer bottles of Dr Good

mike

Updates include a lot of security patches. Many of the security issues come through the browser, so it's not surprising you found patches for IE. Firefox has continuous updates as well, and can interfere with your plugins.
You have the option of turning off updates if you're paranoid about being exploited by evil forces. Many users don't want to be bothered about manually updating software, and wouldn't take the time to learn about security issues. People expect instant fixes every time they hear about a new hack.

A common technique for professional crackers is to write software that searches for computers that haven't updated their software.

mikeb · #9 Post by **mikeb** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 15:53

A common technique for professional crackers is to write software that searches for computers that haven't updated their software.

Well they would have a field day with me then... but I am getting bored of waiting....oh wait I removed the vulnerable software.
Why search...just lob out the virus/trojan etc and it hits whatever it can... sometimes these theories lack real logic.

Joe public just accepts the defaults so windows update will be on.... so how do those email trojans that turn outlook express into a mass mailer from years ago still get to do their stuff?..that one always intrigues me.

Not really paranoia... a software business will use any means it can to make money...that's the game. Programming is just a resource they pay for either internally or externally.

Anyway back to reality.....

Topic is for windows/XP users keeping their machines running cos we have sexy software we like on there. Just cos its closed source does not mean there is not a wealth of juicy free software to run on it.

.NET is a curious one.... started life as a java replacement but now seems to be a duplication of the windows system itself..... a parallel would be wine on windows..... Perhaps there was upset caused by the easy porting of programs in such as visual basic to other platforms so encapsulating them in .NET makes life a little awkward.

If one feels the need for updates then manually doing seems to be a better approach.
Perhaps we could have a list of any updates that cause problems in particular.

mike

jpeps · #10 Post by **jpeps** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 16:08

mikeb wrote:
A common technique for professional crackers is to write software that searches for computers that haven't updated their software.
Well they would have a field day with me then... but I am getting bored of waiting....oh wait I removed the vulnerable software.

No, you haven't. Fortunately, the pros are going after businesses where they can find something to sell. Microsoft isn't just writing software for you.

TJX, Heartland, and CERT's Forensics Analysis Capabilities

http://www.cert.org/podcast/show/20100629kmoore.html

RetroTechGuy · #11 Post by **RetroTechGuy** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 16:25

It is probably a good idea to make periodic images of the XP, until the end of life date. Then you can always restore at a point while it was still working.

http://clonezilla.org/

James C · #12 Post by **James C** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 20:17

Still use XP on a couple of boxes daily...... both fully updated and luckily no problems yet.

Naturally,as soon as I make this post the next updates will cause one to self-destruct.....

mikeb · #13 Post by **mikeb** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 21:03

No, you haven't.

What makes you so certain..I did not give you file lists / registry changes.
True my remarks are based on several years experience rather than scientific papers but then apparently Internet Explorers integration could not be undone except by a wacky Australian with a bat file and various other 'amateurs'.

Fortunately, the pros are going after businesses where they can find something to sell.

True as a corporation with money I would be a more worthy target hence the need for well secured servers. We are discussing Home users and small business level where a lower level of protection and common sense can work rather well. The software that Joe P. (he gets around) is sold for his safety is basically treating the symptoms not the causes with the side effect of system slowdown and errors due to excessive complexity and heavy hardware usage.

Microsoft isn't just writing software for you.

erm they are not writing software for any of us.
Which is why WE have to look after our systems as they are not really interested.

It is probably a good idea to make periodic images of the XP, until the end of life date.

One nice one to try is usboot. Its intended to make a usb bootable XP (another impossible feat apparently) but the spin off is such an image can be cloned back to a hard drive so you have a backup/rescue system that can also be used to create a fresh install in minutes in case of complete meltdown.
Its best done with a fresh install but can equally be applied to an existing happy setup.

all fun stuff

mike

as an aside a neighbour left a shiny 'not that old' tower out in the rain recently.... its a shame when software failure condemns good hardware to the scrap. Ok so it was a dell but I hear they improved over the years

jpeps · #14 Post by **jpeps** » Mon 14 Oct 2013, 21:36

mikeb wrote:
Microsoft isn't just writing software for you.
erm they are not writing software for any of us.
Which is why WE have to look after our systems as they are not really interested.

economics 101

Dewbie · #15 Post by **Dewbie** » Tue 15 Oct 2013, 05:00

mikeb wrote:

99% were for internet explorer and related software. Since I also remove those

Do you remove or disable IE?
(Don't some of the apps require IE's Trident core?)

mikeb · #16 Post by **mikeb** » Tue 15 Oct 2013, 11:11

Yes bad/lazy apps use the trident core.... a little compromise without it is worth it.
Saying that I always removed mshtml et al but got a bit more lenient recently and left it in for testing since I did that originally on a 'why not' basis but had found usage was 'secure' even before doing that.

Some crappy stuff likes to used mshtml to display its user agreement before installing even though the program itself does not need it .. quite lame really (adobe). Since in theory its being used as a html renderer with no obvious internet connection I let it slip back in.... its more an XP thing since you will find when checking with dependency walker that deintegration is a lot cleaner with 2000. On the other hand myself and others have happily used our machines without mshtml for years... its something I am not comfortable with since if you fire up windows explorer and typing a web address voila you are browsing (the internet explorer folder is empty !!). Then there is that wonderful 'webpagedness' options for the desktop.....again never had any encroachments but such things I turn off. The full browser package is not present but enough to surf with.

Its not just security... there have been some stability / performance issues with the integration.... especially in the 98 days ... having to restart and then reboot on a regular basis was not fun...after removal all that stopped. NT is a better system but a wonky internet explorer can still through a major spanner in the works..... indeed its a little odd to reinstall a browser to get your user interface working again.

Another aspect of this game is finding decent alternative software.....browsers that browse and keep browsing , email that does not happily run scripts in images, messengers that only send messages. Well picked programs make a big difference. For some of the well known ones older is definitely better..ie before they blossomed into mammoths

. The security whip is wielded at anything more than 2 seconds old...its a good marketing ploy and if you know of the history of car/automobile industry you can see many parallels. This weeks washing power is amazing and the one we sold you last week will rot your wedding tackle is a common method to persuade 'upgrade upgrade upgrade'
Upgrading your 'free' flash player is so adobe can sell their clients the latest version of their flash editor with 'new' features....sort of comes back to that 'we don't really count in all this' point mentioned earlier.

Bum that's a long answer to a short question

By the way running NT4 was nice...never had to do a thing to make that secure. Its possible to add IE but it runs pretty much as a separate program..I tried it in qemu once. It still can run recent Opera releases too. A bit like that method of running multiple IE versions.

Deintegration methods... originally shane brooks IE remover.... then his 98/2000/XP lite..... then fred vorcks fileset to remove IE at install... then NLite.

mike

starhawk · #17 Post by **starhawk** » Tue 15 Oct 2013, 15:13

The one time I removed IE (it was on an XP system, IIRC it was IE7 or early IE8 ) it did weird things to the video driver.

So I reinstalled IE.

Thanks MS

mikeb · #18 Post by **mikeb** » Tue 15 Oct 2013, 15:26

Nvidia seem to use it for some extended desktop functions .

I have never installed 7 or 8 so no idea what they may affect.... though it does not change that much underneath.

The original court case over integration was back in 1999 ish so IE 5 and 6 were involved at the time.

I do find installing without produces cleaner results.

mike

Bligh · #19 Post by **Bligh** » Wed 16 Oct 2013, 01:27

No updates, Clonezilla works good for win systems.
Cheers

mikeb · #20 Post by **mikeb** » Wed 16 Oct 2013, 10:56

ERDNT is a handy registry backup and optimise tool. Windows built in methods always seemed a little obtuse and drive greedy.

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

With the registry safe the rest is just files which can be restored manually or via SFC.

mike

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