Canada puts US on'torture list'

[SirDuncan]

I saw this on the news (an American station, though I link to the BBC article). I hadn't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I would.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7195276.stm>

I wish I could say that I was surprised, but the recent actions of our government made something like this inevitable. I only hope that it makes those in charge take a second look at what is going on. Even some of the "I love George Bush" political pundits are starting to talk about us slipping into the category of rogue state.

What makes this so bad is that our allies our not just worried about us torturing our enemies, but also torturing the citizens of these friendly countries.

[Caneri]

My mother would be crushed by this turn of events..you see she was from Miller City Ohio.

Now she is gone from this world but if she is watching me she now knows of this.

As for the topic...I sincerely hope the current "Bush League" hasn't caused permanent damage to the US..before Bush (oil baron that failed to be a baron) there was a happy time in the US and Canada for that matter...or have we all forgotten so soon...sadly I have to agree with my country (Canada) and the award is justified.

Eric

[jonyo]

A government spokesman said the manual did not reflect the views of Canada, which is an ally of the US and Israel.

"The training manual is not a policy document and does not reflect the views or policies of this government," said a spokesman for Foreign Minister Maxime Bernier.

[Caneri]

@jonyo

Well there are a lot of people around the world that really don't need an article in a magazine or newspaper or a press release to understand a crime is a crime.

I don't have all the answers, but 911 as bad as it was, is no reason to hurt the ones you love.....

Eric

[ttuuxxx]

Well we all knew that the USA did torture its guest at Guantanamo Bay detention camp, And we all know that they did deserve it. Well at least the bad ones did. But really the USA policy's did make the war for when they supported Bin Laden and the CIA trained him, then suddenly a change in policy made them change their minds and turn on him and then basically all hell happened.

I had about 2 more pages typed but I erased it because I didn't want to get too deep in politics because that is one of my passions but really thats not what Linux is about, To me Linux is a gathering of all countries, races, cultures, religions, and we work together perfectly, (most of the time), United as one setting some goals, and then concurring without weapons of torture.

But if you do like politics, go to the #politics on here, and change your nick first,lol its fun after a few beers
ttuuxxx
Have fun

P.s when it comes to torture at Guantanamo Bay I think it was just. Because they were facing terrorist that bombed their homeland and killed 5000 innocent people who were business people. And these terrorist people were hardened trained terrorists that alcada trained, And basically the USA wanted answers and weren't getting them, so basically they had to resort to lower means of tactics.

ttuuxxx

[Ted Dog]

interrogation techniques such as forced nudity, isolation, sleep deprivation

Sounds like first week of middle school Physical Education in Texas, and we had dodgeball, wimps!

[Sage]

Has everyone forgotten extraordinary rendition already? If you can't do your own torturing then get someone else to do it for you. Ably assisted by 'friendly' politicians in other NATO countries who allow overflying and refueling! Not to mention the Poles and Czechs siting US missiles on their soil. Why upset the Russians? Maybe they can suspend their regular and utterly reliable service flights to the ISS in retaliation?! The Brits are just as bad, stamping their feet for the extradition of Lugavoy whilst ruling out earlier Russian requests for extradition of common criminals. About time these Oxbridge and Yarvard louts learned some manners.

There were loud howls of disapproval when I branded GWB as the greatest danger to the world eight years ago. Now everyone knows the truth. The evil empire lies S. of the 49th parallel and 6hrs W. of Greenwich, not somewhere in the Middle East.

[hillside]

The evil empire lies S. of the 49th parallel and 6hrs W. of Greenwich

Whoa there, buckaroo!

I think evil empire is stretching things a bit. How about Stupid Empire, Moronic Empire, Empire of Idiocy, or maybe Empire Ruled by a Stupid Moronic Idiot?

Half the citizens of this crumbling empire didn't vote for the half wit clown or his insane pals. Another 20% have oh-so-slowly learned their lesson. That leaves only 30% who are still right wing, radical, Christian supremacist, wacko lunatics and 30% isn't enough to elect another lunatic fringe, wacko, crazy, sub-intellect.

So things may be looking up; especially since we couldn't really go much lower.

[ttuuxxx]

Has everyone forgotten extraordinary rendition already? If you can't do your own torturing then get someone else to do it for you. Ably assisted by 'friendly' politicians in other NATO countries who allow overflying and refueling! Not to mention the Poles and Czechs siting US missiles on their soil. Why upset the Russians? Maybe they can suspend their regular and utterly reliable service flights to the ISS in retaliation?! The Brits are just as bad, stamping their feet for the extradition of Lugavoy whilst ruling out earlier Russian requests for extradition of common criminals. About time these Oxbridge and Yarvard louts learned some manners.

There were loud howls of disapproval when I branded GWB as the greatest danger to the world eight years ago. Now everyone knows the truth. The evil empire lies S. of the 49th parallel and 6hrs W. of Greenwich, not somewhere in the Middle East.

well when it comes to the USA putting missiles on Poles and Czechs soil, When I first heard it, I thought it was really over the top, But when you talk about NATO lets not forget since the fall of the wall in Russia, Really they haven't played ball in NATO at all with the west. They've taken more the French, China sides on issues. The USA plays ball, if you sit a inning you get a chance up to bat, If not then your way in the outfield. Basically if you go with them, you get the finical resources, if not then your on your own.With that in mind and you think about the missiles with the North Korean Crisis and IRAN, you would like to have at least 2 strikes at a incoming missile not just one. hence the reason why they are doing it. A first strike location, Not really at Russia but at other non-compliant nations.
ttuuxxx

When your the only world Super Power, You just never know, and your better to be prepared then not, Lets not forget 911. If they were prepared it would of been a lot less deaths. Plus the pentagon how dumb that was, They should of had a antimissile defense located at that building, shit I still think they don't. very Dumb, I think all main hot interest sites should have some sort of defense from the threat of missiles or hi-jacked planes or bombs period.

The only thing I really dislike about the USA is the Presidential campaign how long it goes on and controls the tv, even in Australia and that people like bush and his father with oil backgrounds stirs up so much turmoil overseas that oil prices rise in a couple of years what it took 50yrs before to do.
Great profit for the oil people, not so great for the other 9 billion on the planet.
ttuuxxx

[LS650]

I honestly think the US is a great nation.

The problem is that a great nation should be lead by a great leader... and Bush is not a great leader.

[sunburnt]

Yes, many of us knew who Bush was & what he stood for before 2000.
Many more learned about Bush by 2004, & even more by 2008.

Sadly... 1 out of 3 U.S. citizens still think Bush & Chainey are nice people!

Winston Churchill:
The biggest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.

Boy did he hit the nail on the head!
You cannot have a working functional democracy with morons voting!
Morons vote for other morons (Bush & Chainey), this has to be stopped somehow.
Voters must be educated & informed about the cantidates, they're not!
They vote with blind allegence for their party of choice, without choosing!

Albert Einstein:
There are 2 limitless things in the universe I'm sure of.
(1)The universe itself, & (2) the stupidity of man.
And he added, but I'm not so sure about the universe.

[Caneri]

Breaking news..

Canada apologies for the torture document...sheesh

It seems media/public coverage is enough to re-spin the document that Amnesty International and NATO have already agreed with...and proven to be accurate.

Well...the power of the pen was a good and useful way to protect us from the bad guys...it seems now the power of the press is bastardized and defunct..what a waste of good and proper research by good and proper organizations that are respected world wide.

I am ashamed....

EDIT: I'm not ashamed of Canada..just the current politico and their henchmen...my apologies to canucks and this thread.

Eric

[rarsa]

Well we all knew that the USA did torture its guest at Guantanamo Bay detention camp, And we all know that they did deserve it. Well at least the bad ones did.

And how would you know which ones are the bad ones? torturing them all until the good ones confess that they are the good ones?

Ttuuxxx, I think you haven't given all the thought this topic requires. Torture in inhuman and it says more about the one applying it than the one receiving it. Condoning it says a lot about you.

Would you condone torture for captured US soldiers so they say where the next US attack will be?

Do you really think that the sides in this conflict are so diferent from each other? They are both trying to impose their "morals" and way of living to others. If I favour the western model does not give me the right to dictate it to others. Specially when the only "moral" of this story is oil and geopolitics.

[Trobin]

Bush-Lite will probably have someone fired in the middle of the night. Like he did with the head of the Nuclear Safety Commission... The one fired for doing her job.

[muggins]

http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org/

Reading like a monty python script, except it was real & used as a manual on how to torture people accused of witchcraft, it contains such logic as witches feel no pain in the spots where succubi, or incubi, entered their bodies, giving the torturers carte blanche to jab the accused with pointy implements until, surprise, surprise, they found such a spot.

[ttuuxxx]

Well we all knew that the USA did torture its guest at Guantanamo Bay detention camp, And we all know that they did deserve it. Well at least the bad ones did.

And how would you know which ones are the bad ones? torturing them all until the good ones confess that they are the good ones?

Ttuuxxx, I think you haven't given all the thought this topic requires. Torture in inhuman and it says more about the one applying it than the one receiving it. Condoning it says a lot about you.

Would you condone torture for captured US soldiers so they say where the next US attack will be?

Do you really think that the sides in this conflict are so diferent from each other? They are both trying to impose their "morals" and way of living to others. If I favour the western model does not give me the right to dictate it to others. Specially when the only "moral" of this story is oil and geopolitics.

The levels of torture on a scale that the USA used was like a 2.5, really it was more shaming then anything, they didn't stretch the people, or shove objects where they shouldn't go, or rip peoples nails off, or break any limbs. etc, shit they didn't even use electricity. not really torture. I'm also a Canadian and if someone blew up 5000 Business Canadians and we had say 100 of them behind bars i would want answers no matter what, like which targets are next, who was the king pin etc, If the people would of just given truthful answers in the first place then no torture would of taken place, that was a last resort. And really they are at war with these people, how do you think they should treat them with a 5 start hotel and a night in Vegas? etc come on.
ttuuxx

[Sage]

This guy, above, is truly a joker. The one thing you can always be certain of with torture is that you will achieve the answers you wish. Victims will oblige with written confessions of anything you care to charge them with. And the relation to the truth is zero. How many despots have built their kingdoms on such worthless exercises. In short, you learn nothing except that you, yourself, are devoid of morals and intelligence. Bush or Saddam - can't get a Rizla between them.

[mcewanw]

if someone blew up 5000 Business Canadians

And the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who have died in Iraq as a result of the retaliation? You can't blame the so-called "insurgents" for everything... I doubt that carnage would have occured had it not been for Bush's "War on Terror". Strange how there was so much shock and horror over the twin towers but no-one seems to bat much an eyelid (in the Western press at least) when the US bombs an area of Baghdad in what they call a targeted raid.

But I do agree with raffy tux, you need to re-think your attitude towards torture, any kind of torture.

Talking about the twin towers... somehow reminds me of Bobby Fischer. What a shock I got hearing he had died so relatively young. One of the greatest chess players ever; he put the US on the map for a while...

[LS650]

not really torture.

I see, it' s not real torture, just imitation torture!

Thing is, there's a slippery slope there, and I'd rather not slide down it. Once the government sanctions torture for one class of criminal, others will follow....

[2byte]

And the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who have died in Iraq as a result of the retaliation?

The war in Iraq has nothing to do with the twin towers. That was Afghanistan. It has everything to do with creating a base to intimidate and influence oil producing countries. That is what the innocents have died for.

Torturing combatants is illegal and immoral. If the US government wants the war on terror to succeed it must start by butting out of everyone else's business so those people can exercise their fundamental right of self determination. Notice I said US government. The citizens of the US have very little influence with the federal government.